[Genealib] RE: Future of Genealogy Ordering
MPL Genealogy Department
geniedept at miami.lib.ok.us
Wed Apr 26 17:41:11 EDT 2006
Yes, it's me again. I finally had an afternoon to get through my back issues
:o)
Sounds like we need to encourage folks, speakers, and umbrella organizations
(NGS, FGS, etc.) to add "and market" to the "you should publish" battle cry.
As a newer librarian and small publisher (Gregath PC - I do our order
fulfillment) I can see both sides of the coin. I also realize that many
Copyright holders don't think of discounting (thus allowing distributors and
such) when setting their prices. However, I agree, if folks don't let it be
known that a resource is available, we can't buy it.
Carrie Cook
Miami (OK) Public Library
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:00 AM
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Subject: genealib Digest, Vol 31, Issue 39
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering (Donna)
2. RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering (Susan Scouras)
3. Re: Future of Genealogy Ordering (Craig R. Scott)
4. Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering (Donna)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:16:19 -0500
From: "Donna" <kjendlie at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
To: "Librarians Serving Genealogists" <genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <00c201c66944$604d0230$6401a8c0 at donna5e03430b3>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
MessageAs a small publisher and also working with 2 genealogical societies,
it is a great service to us. Sometimes the wait for payment is frustrating
but allowing that we may not have had the sale, it works nicely for us.
Donna
Working with Walworth County Gen Soc and Green County Gen Soc of WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Scouras
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Yes.
Susan Scouras
Librarian
WV Archives and History Library
The Cultural Center
1900 Kanawha Blvd. East
Charleston, WV 25305-0300
(304) 558-0230, Ext. 742
-----Original Message-----
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Garonzik
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:33 AM
To: 'Librarians Serving Genealogists'
Subject: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Importance: Low
Is the availability of online ordering a significant incentive for
libraries to purchase directly from the small publisher?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Hill
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:51 AM
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
I would like to speak on behalf of acquisitions personnel. The staffers
who place the actual orders can be equally frustrated, if not more so, by
the lack of understanding of library acquisition procedures on the part of
whatever entity funds the library - a city, a county, a society, a
university, a museum, or whatever. There are some libraries for whom it is
absolutely impossible to send payment along with an order, and other
libraries for whom the process of prepayment is so difficult and
time-consuming that the acquisitions staff avoids doing so at all costs.
Yet there are small publishers and self-publishers who absolutely will not,
or cannot, bill with shipment. Acquisitions staffers are forced to go
through a "middleman" (library book jobber) in an attempt to acquire those
publications, and the orders often fail, perhaps because the book jobber is
asking the publisher for a non-existent discount, or has neglected to pay
the publisher for a previous order. Many
book jobbers also do not seem to have adequate knowledgeable staff who can
track down the publisher's address, even using the Internet; and even when
the address and order information is supplied by the ordering library, the
jobber may ignore it.
It is true that librarians are more patient when it comes to getting a
title; I used to work in a library which held purchase orders open for two
years, hoping the item would be reprinted and the order would be filled.
However, publishers have no uniformity whatsoever when it comes to
back-orders; some never fill old orders when a book is reprinted, expecting
libraries to reorder; but others will fill old orders even though they were
cancelled long ago; and many others have a definite time limit for filling
back-orders which varies wildly from publisher to publisher. Then there is
another whole ball of wax regarding publishers who cannot seem to invoice
correctly. Even worse, sometimes a central disbursement office for the
city, county, university, etc. will lump the library's payment in with a
check from another department and the publisher won't realize the library's
invoice has been paid.
I have observed that even librarians are often unacquainted with the
problems their acquisitions staff must face. I would encourage everyone to
MEET with your staff, LISTEN to their frustrations, and ADVOCATE on their
behalf with the powers that fund the library, in an effort to lessen red
tape and facilitate more flexibility in ordering. Your collections will
certainly benefit.
Meantime, please buy a large box of chocolates for your acquisitions
staff and nominate them all for sainthood.
Barbara Hill
<bhill at calmail.berkeley.edu>
At 12:46 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
Just like the future of genealogical ordering is changing, so has the
future of genealogical publishing. That has caused some significant
reevaluation of how my business operates.
I would love to have some help with my assumptions.
<snip>
Acquisition personnel are frustrated by societies, self-publishers, etc.
who do not understand library acquisition policy and procedures.
<snip>
Librarians are more patient when it comes to getting a title, if they
can be assured they will get it.
We need a Genealogical Library Service Company that can take a
multi-publisher library order, go get the books, report status and ship the
correct books carefully.
<snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:26:00 -0400
From: "Susan Scouras" <Susan.Scouras at wvculture.org>
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
To: "Librarians Serving Genealogists" <genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu>
Message-ID:
<3C3AAA3A260F8B42B08D24D1CAEC066902870F9D at mail.wvculture.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would hope that the societies, almost all of whom are desperately in
need of funds, would be willing to provide a list of their publications
for sale on a regular basis to a middleman company or organization.
Since most of them publish some type of newsletter with a publications
order form, it could be as simple as adding the distributor to their
mailing list.
Susan Scouras
Librarian
WV Archives and History Library
The Cultural Center
1900 Kanawha Blvd. East
Charleston, WV 25305-0300
(304) 558-0230, Ext. 742
-----Original Message-----
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Donna
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:16 AM
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Importance: Low
As a small publisher and also working with 2 genealogical
societies, it is a great service to us. Sometimes the wait for payment
is frustrating but allowing that we may not have had the sale, it works
nicely for us. Donna
Working with Walworth County Gen Soc and Green County Gen Soc of
WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Scouras <mailto:Susan.Scouras at wvculture.org>
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
<mailto:genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Yes.
Susan Scouras
Librarian
WV Archives and History Library
The Cultural Center
1900 Kanawha Blvd. East
Charleston, WV 25305-0300
(304) 558-0230, Ext. 742
-----Original Message-----
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Joe
Garonzik
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:33 AM
To: 'Librarians Serving Genealogists'
Subject: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy
Ordering
Importance: Low
Is the availability of online ordering a
significant incentive for libraries to purchase directly from the small
publisher?
_____
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara
Hill
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:51 AM
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
I would like to speak on behalf of acquisitions
personnel. The staffers who place the actual orders can be equally
frustrated, if not more so, by the lack of understanding of library
acquisition procedures on the part of whatever entity funds the library
- a city, a county, a society, a university, a museum, or whatever.
There are some libraries for whom it is absolutely impossible to send
payment along with an order, and other libraries for whom the process of
prepayment is so difficult and time-consuming that the acquisitions
staff avoids doing so at all costs. Yet there are small publishers and
self-publishers who absolutely will not, or cannot, bill with shipment.
Acquisitions staffers are forced to go through a "middleman" (library
book jobber) in an attempt to acquire those publications, and the orders
often fail, perhaps because the book jobber is asking the publisher for
a non-existent discount, or has neglected to pay the publisher for a
previous order. Many book jobbers also do not seem to have adequate
knowledgeable staff who can track down the publisher's address, even
using the Internet; and even when the address and order information is
supplied by the ordering library, the jobber may ignore it.
It is true that librarians are more patient when
it comes to getting a title; I used to work in a library which held
purchase orders open for two years, hoping the item would be reprinted
and the order would be filled. However, publishers have no uniformity
whatsoever when it comes to back-orders; some never fill old orders when
a book is reprinted, expecting libraries to reorder; but others will
fill old orders even though they were cancelled long ago; and many
others have a definite time limit for filling back-orders which varies
wildly from publisher to publisher. Then there is another whole ball of
wax regarding publishers who cannot seem to invoice correctly. Even
worse, sometimes a central disbursement office for the city, county,
university, etc. will lump the library's payment in with a check from
another department and the publisher won't realize the library's invoice
has been paid.
I have observed that even librarians are often
unacquainted with the problems their acquisitions staff must face. I
would encourage everyone to MEET with your staff, LISTEN to their
frustrations, and ADVOCATE on their behalf with the powers that fund the
library, in an effort to lessen red tape and facilitate more flexibility
in ordering. Your collections will certainly benefit.
Meantime, please buy a large box of chocolates
for your acquisitions staff and nominate them all for sainthood.
Barbara Hill
<bhill at calmail.berkeley.edu>
At 12:46 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
Just like the future of genealogical ordering is
changing, so has the future of genealogical publishing. That has caused
some significant reevaluation of how my business operates.
I would love to have some help with my
assumptions.
<snip>
Acquisition personnel are frustrated by
societies, self-publishers, etc. who do not understand library
acquisition policy and procedures.
<snip>
Librarians are more patient when it comes to
getting a title, if they can be assured they will get it.
We need a Genealogical Library Service Company
that can take a multi-publisher library order, go get the books, report
status and ship the correct books carefully.
<snip>
_____
_______________________________________________
genealib mailing list
genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
http://mailman.acomp.usf.edu/mailman/listinfo/genealib
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:41:25 -0400
From: "Craig R. Scott" <crscott at HeritageBooks.com>
Subject: Re: [Genealib] Future of Genealogy Ordering
To: "Librarians Serving Genealogists" <genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <004101c66947$e4ded0c0$6400a8c0 at CRAIG>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
> Please pardon me if I'm misinterpreting, but it seems to me that Craig
> might be saying we need something like a Baker & Taylor for genealogy
> materials. That could be a challenge, given that we buy from individuals
> who self-publish, to large companies.
I don't think that you are misinterpreting. The concept being to remove that
challenge of the range of possible sources.
Defining what the value to the acquisitions staff of not having to deal with
individuals and small publishers with limited numbers of relevant titles has
yet to be qauntified.
Could a genealogical library service company survive in a non-mass-market
environment?
I think that it can if there are enough libraries involved, invoices are
paid on time, returns are few in number, and duplicate shipments or
misshipments are avoided. Understanding the rules of engagement for each
library (i.e., no backorders, complete shipments, automatic cancellation
dates, purchase order numbers, etc.) reduce costs. The margins are very slim
and the staff would have to be also. Things like online ordering and
ordering by mail and fax (with complete product detail) make a difference in
costs. Phone orders are killers when it comes to staff time.
C.
Craig R. Scott, CG
President & CEO
Heritage Books, Inc.
65 East Main Street
Westminster, MD 21157
800 876-6103
410 876-6101
(fax) 410 871-2674
crscott at HeritageBooks.com
Visit our websites www.HeritageBooks.com and www.WillowBendBooks.com
Subscribe to Heritage Books eNews http://www.HeritageBooks.com/hbsignup.htm
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:42:40 -0500
From: "Donna" <kjendlie at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
To: "Librarians Serving Genealogists" <genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <00e201c66948$0d70b5d0$6401a8c0 at donna5e03430b3>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
MessageOur societies would be happy to email a listing to any libraries
wishing one. If you are interested please use kjendlie at charter.net for
Walworth Co, WI , Green Co WI and a couple of Rock, WI listings. I can only
see this as a win-win situation. Donna
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Scouras
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
I would hope that the societies, almost all of whom are desperately in
need of funds, would be willing to provide a list of their publications for
sale on a regular basis to a middleman company or organization. Since most
of them publish some type of newsletter with a publications order form, it
could be as simple as adding the distributor to their mailing list.
Susan Scouras
Librarian
WV Archives and History Library
The Cultural Center
1900 Kanawha Blvd. East
Charleston, WV 25305-0300
(304) 558-0230, Ext. 742
-----Original Message-----
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Donna
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:16 AM
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Importance: Low
As a small publisher and also working with 2 genealogical societies, it
is a great service to us. Sometimes the wait for payment is frustrating but
allowing that we may not have had the sale, it works nicely for us. Donna
Working with Walworth County Gen Soc and Green County Gen Soc of WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Scouras
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Yes.
Susan Scouras
Librarian
WV Archives and History Library
The Cultural Center
1900 Kanawha Blvd. East
Charleston, WV 25305-0300
(304) 558-0230, Ext. 742
-----Original Message-----
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Joe Garonzik
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:33 AM
To: 'Librarians Serving Genealogists'
Subject: [BULK] RE: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
Importance: Low
Is the availability of online ordering a significant incentive for
libraries to purchase directly from the small publisher?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
[mailto:genealib-bounces at mailman.acomp.usf.edu] On Behalf Of Barbara Hill
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:51 AM
To: Librarians Serving Genealogists
Subject: Re: [Genealib] Genealogy Ordering
I would like to speak on behalf of acquisitions personnel. The
staffers who place the actual orders can be equally frustrated, if not more
so, by the lack of understanding of library acquisition procedures on the
part of whatever entity funds the library - a city, a county, a society, a
university, a museum, or whatever. There are some libraries for whom it is
absolutely impossible to send payment along with an order, and other
libraries for whom the process of prepayment is so difficult and
time-consuming that the acquisitions staff avoids doing so at all costs.
Yet there are small publishers and self-publishers who absolutely will not,
or cannot, bill with shipment. Acquisitions staffers are forced to go
through a "middleman" (library book jobber) in an attempt to acquire those
publications, and the orders often fail, perhaps because the book jobber is
asking the publisher for a non-existent discount, or has neglected to pay
the publisher for a previous order.
Many book jobbers also do not seem to have adequate knowledgeable staff who
can track down the publisher's address, even using the Internet; and even
when the address and order information is supplied by the ordering library,
the jobber may ignore it.
It is true that librarians are more patient when it comes to getting
a title; I used to work in a library which held purchase orders open for two
years, hoping the item would be reprinted and the order would be filled.
However, publishers have no uniformity whatsoever when it comes to
back-orders; some never fill old orders when a book is reprinted, expecting
libraries to reorder; but others will fill old orders even though they were
cancelled long ago; and many others have a definite time limit for filling
back-orders which varies wildly from publisher to publisher. Then there is
another whole ball of wax regarding publishers who cannot seem to invoice
correctly. Even worse, sometimes a central disbursement office for the
city, county, university, etc. will lump the library's payment in with a
check from another department and the publisher won't realize the library's
invoice has been paid.
I have observed that even librarians are often unacquainted with the
problems their acquisitions staff must face. I would encourage everyone to
MEET with your staff, LISTEN to their frustrations, and ADVOCATE on their
behalf with the powers that fund the library, in an effort to lessen red
tape and facilitate more flexibility in ordering. Your collections will
certainly benefit.
Meantime, please buy a large box of chocolates for your acquisitions
staff and nominate them all for sainthood.
Barbara Hill
<bhill at calmail.berkeley.edu>
At 12:46 PM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
Just like the future of genealogical ordering is changing, so has
the future of genealogical publishing. That has caused some significant
reevaluation of how my business operates.
I would love to have some help with my assumptions.
<snip>
Acquisition personnel are frustrated by societies, self-publishers,
etc. who do not understand library acquisition policy and procedures.
<snip>
Librarians are more patient when it comes to getting a title, if
they can be assured they will get it.
We need a Genealogical Library Service Company that can take a
multi-publisher library order, go get the books, report status and ship the
correct books carefully.
<snip>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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genealib mailing list
genealib at mailman.acomp.usf.edu
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